Wagon question: kids in the third row?

[cevamal]

We're considering buying a '98 Audi A6 with a rear-facing third row seat.

The seat only goes to ~80lbs per side. Can you use a booster in these seats? I've been googling but haven't found anything useful.

We have two kids so it would only be for carpooling around town, but if the seats aren't designed to work with boosters then I wouldn't do it.

	Booster Seat A booster seat raises your child up so that the car's lap and shoulder belts fit correctly. The lap belt should fall across the upper thighs. The shoulder belt should go across the middle of the shoulder and chest. A booster seat is used for older children up to about 80 pounds. Some states have passed laws requiring booster seats for children up to age 8 or 80 pounds. Check your state's law. Ready to buy a Booster Seat? Please support our sponsor!

[cevamal]

*bump*

Nothing? Anyone at least have a suggestion on how to find out? I suppose I'll call Audi tomorrow.

[MnMadhouse]

There are no carseats/boosters on the market today that will allow you to install a carseat on a seat facing any other direction except towards the front of the vehicle. So, no, you could not put a booster on a seat like this.

	Booster Seat A booster seat raises your child up so that the car's lap and shoulder belts fit correctly. The lap belt should fall across the upper thighs. The shoulder belt should go across the middle of the shoulder and chest. A booster seat is used for older children up to about 80 pounds. Some states have passed laws requiring booster seats for children up to age 8 or 80 pounds. Check your state's law. Ready to buy a Booster Seat? Please support our sponsor!

[CPS-I_Jeff]

I given the option, I would buy that vehicle. There is a reason they no longer make vehicles with rear facing seats anymore. Good luck with your search and let us know if you have any other questions.

[332755]

Originally Posted by cevamal

We're considering buying a '98 Audi A6 with a rear-facing third row seat.

The seat only goes to ~80lbs per side. Can you use a booster in these seats? I've been googling but haven't found anything useful.

We have two kids so it would only be for carpooling around town, but if the seats aren't designed to work with boosters then I wouldn't do it.

Were you able to find an Allroad with the third row seating? I am actively looking and cannot find one. Help?

	Booster Seat A booster seat raises your child up so that the car's lap and shoulder belts fit correctly. The lap belt should fall across the upper thighs. The shoulder belt should go across the middle of the shoulder and chest. A booster seat is used for older children up to about 80 pounds. Some states have passed laws requiring booster seats for children up to age 8 or 80 pounds. Check your state's law. Ready to buy a Booster Seat? Please support our sponsor!

[cevamal]

The RF seat was an option in the all-road up through 2002. The seat doesn't fold in like in the picture, it snaps in and out. You may be able to get the car and the seat separately, but be sure the car has provisions for the seat, I don't know that all will.

[eps]

Originally Posted by CPS-I_Jeff

I given the option, I would buy that vehicle. There is a reason they no longer make vehicles with rear facing seats anymore. Good luck with your search and let us know if you have any other questions.

The reason "they" no longer make cars with rear-facing seats is that the car manufacturers have all decided to sell us SUVs because they are cheap to produce and fashionable. An SUV can accommodate a forward-facing third row. Is this safer? It comes down to these questions:

- Is any SUV or Minivan safer than an Audi A6 or Volvo V70?

- Is it safer to place the head and torso at the back of the car (forward facing SUV or Minvan) or the center of the car (rear facing)?

- Is it safer to absorb the energy of a front-end collision with ones chest against the seat belt or with ones back against the seat cushion?

Lacking any accident statistics, it is very hard to believe that a rear-facing seat in a station wagon isn't considerably safer than a forward facing rear seat in a Minivan, SUV, or small hatchback.

-Eric

	Forward Facing Car Seats A forward-facing car seat is one in which the child sits facing the front of the car. The seat should be installed in the back seat of your vehicle. Most forward-facing only seats are for children above 20 pounds.

[eps]

Originally Posted by cevamal

We're considering buying a '98 Audi A6 with a rear-facing third row seat.

The seat only goes to ~80lbs per side. Can you use a booster in these seats? I've been googling but haven't found anything useful.

We have two kids so it would only be for carpooling around town, but if the seats aren't designed to work with boosters then I wouldn't do it.

This is a stale thread, but turns up in google searchs, so here's my 2 cents.

I have a Volvo wagon with similar third-row seat. Volvo provides an extra seat cushion for their seat, effectively a booster. In any event, the third row seat has exactly the size and weight specifications as a booster seat, so it is designed to be a built-in booster seat (clearly Audi and Volvo intend it as such). What legal standing that has is up to interpretation since these things predate widespread booster seat laws and laws are at the state level, not federal. I doubt there is any judicial precedent on the matter. From a safety point of view, if the seat belt is properly positioned, then it functions as a booster.

-Eric

	Booster Seat A booster seat raises your child up so that the car's lap and shoulder belts fit correctly. The lap belt should fall across the upper thighs. The shoulder belt should go across the middle of the shoulder and chest. A booster seat is used for older children up to about 80 pounds. Some states have passed laws requiring booster seats for children up to age 8 or 80 pounds. Check your state's law. Ready to buy a Booster Seat? Please support our sponsor!

[Papooses]

Originally Posted by CPS-I_Jeff

I given the option, I would buy that vehicle. There is a reason they no longer make vehicles with rear facing seats anymore.

Typo It seems you meant that you would *not* buy a vehicle with RF 3rd row.

Originally Posted by eps

The reason "they" no longer make cars with rear-facing seats is that the car manufacturers have all decided to sell us SUVs because they are cheap to produce and fashionable.

Not to mention that fact that kids are required to use safety seats longer now (thank goodness: thousands of lives have been saved!) yet no carseat/booster manufacturer allows installation on RF vehicle seats....

- Is any SUV or Minivan safer than an Audi A6 or Volvo V70?

Yes, it's possible, depending on the model years.

- Is it safer to place the head and torso at the back of the car (forward facing SUV or Minvan) or the center of the car (rear facing)?

In general we do wish every passenger could ride RF because it would be safer . . . but, correct use is still considered safest, so our hands are relatively tied until manufacturer's test seats with the bench RF: as it is now choosing to go against the manufacturer's recommendations basically equates to the child being a real life crash test dummy

- Is it safer to absorb the energy of a front-end collision with ones chest against the seat belt or with ones back against the seat cushion?

What we do know is that lives are currently saved every day & injury often totally avoided thanks to correct use. If we had the testing data or real crash data on this to accurately predict the risk of installing carseats on RF vehicle seats then we might have different answers. But, we don't. At this point all we can say is that it comes down to parental discretion.

Lacking any accident statistics, it is very hard to believe that a rear-facing seat in a station wagon isn't considerably safer than a forward facing rear seat in a Minivan, SUV, or small hatchback.

Actually, we do have enough data to say that the cargo area is known to have higher injury rates because the cargo area is often a crush zone.

Originally Posted by eps

What legal standing that has is up to interpretation since these things predate widespread booster seat laws and laws are at the state level, not federal. I doubt there is any judicial precedent on the matter.

Some states do have Proper Use clauses, which automatically make it illegal to install any child safety seat on RF vehicle seats. Beyond that we most likely would have to wait for NHTSA to require manufacturers to test child safety seats on RF vehicle seats in order for us to know more. NHTSA is still working on side impact crash testing regulations of child safety seats on FF vehicle seats, so I doubt we'll see RF vehicle seat regulations anytime soon.

From a safety point of view, if the seat belt is properly positioned, then it functions as a booster.

This is regarding an item made by the car company & specifically designed for that vehicle, though.

At a seatcheck I would do everything possible to figure out how to keep the child safety seats in the traditional backseat, saving the rear RF bench only for those kids big enough to fit it without need of a child safety seat. In this way the safety of ALL would be more equalized (smaller kids already having the benefit of a harness which does distribute crash forces out over a broader area of the body, providing some side impact protection as well)

There are, of course, situations where a family needs a 7 passenger vehicle & cannot possibly afford a minivan or large SUV. If they can manage to get a 3rd row installed so that each child has their own seatbelt & that's the very best they can do, then that will have to be "good enough".

I myself am a single mom in college. TA'ing & volunteering to teach other low income families how to keep their kids safe doesn't leave me with enough $ for my own vehicle. I have been faced with this dilemma, but luckilly I also have 2 niche seats that allowed me to keep all the kids as safe as they possibly could be. I was thankful my friend was willing to help us out since the city bus wasn't working that day. I also don't live in a Proper Use clase state so my only worry was whether my educated guesses as to which child in which seat should go where were accurate. Even more lucky, no one crashed into us that day for me to find out I was inaccurate.

I have decline a ride with this person every other time they've offered. I put my child's safety above convenience, so we opt to ride the city bus instead (which is about 8 times less likely to crash in the 1st place). Or, when I have $ I call a taxicab & make sure the driver doesn't put it in gear before I'm done installing the seat, let alone before we're all buckled.

	Forward Facing Car Seats A forward-facing car seat is one in which the child sits facing the front of the car. The seat should be installed in the back seat of your vehicle. Most forward-facing only seats are for children above 20 pounds.

	Booster Seat A booster seat raises your child up so that the car's lap and shoulder belts fit correctly. The lap belt should fall across the upper thighs. The shoulder belt should go across the middle of the shoulder and chest. A booster seat is used for older children up to about 80 pounds. Some states have passed laws requiring booster seats for children up to age 8 or 80 pounds. Check your state's law. Ready to buy a Booster Seat? Please support our sponsor!

	Graco CarGo booster seat - Click for more info The Graco CarGo is a dependable and easy to use booster seat. When your child is on the lower end of the height/weight limits for the seat, the 5-point harness is used to keep them safely in place. It features a convenient one-pull snugging mechanism in the front of the seat - making it easy to tighten the straps down after your child has been buckled in. When your child is around 35-40" tall, the CarGo's harness can be removed, so that the seat can be used as a belt-positioning booster, using the vehicle's lap and shoulder belt. In this mode, the Graco CarGo will work for kids up to 54" or 100 lbs. Both the Platinum and the Ultra CarGo feature an Energy Absorbing Foam (EPS) liner, a removable, washable seat pad, and a cup holder. The Platinum CarGo is a softer and more comfortable seat than the Ultra CarGo (although still not as comfy as the well-padded Britax booster seats).

[cevamal]

OP here to follow-up.

Do you know whether Virginia has a proper use clause? My primary goal is keeping my kids safe, but I am curious what the restrictions are here in VA.

We did buy the car, but no one's sat in the back seat and I haven't even test-fit kids there. We were going to get either that or a sedan, so the extra seating was just a bonus. So far it's been great to have space for the dog! My primary car is a Civic and we have a Great Dane so there was no way to bring her in the car with all four of us. She loves the third row.

I still intend to test-fit the 5yo back there with and without a booster and post pictures for review. Right now I have no intention of using it, but if I needed to drive another kid in a pinch I do want to know the safest way of putting them back there.

I was thrilled to discover I can fit three seats across the back! In my Civic the Marathons are about 4" apart...this is a much wider car! I can easily put the scenera in the middle and turboboosters on either side.

I appreciate all the help here, and the continuing discussion in the thread.

	Booster Seat A booster seat raises your child up so that the car's lap and shoulder belts fit correctly. The lap belt should fall across the upper thighs. The shoulder belt should go across the middle of the shoulder and chest. A booster seat is used for older children up to about 80 pounds. Some states have passed laws requiring booster seats for children up to age 8 or 80 pounds. Check your state's law. Ready to buy a Booster Seat? Please support our sponsor!