my back hurts mom!

[l8dbugsmom]

My ds is 2 yrs old and has started complaining that his back hurts after about 10 minutes into every car ride. My 4yo dd is in the same exact kind of seat and has never complained. I this common? Is he just crazy or am I just horrible for not running out and buying a new seat? Is there something else I can do to add comfort...I hesitate as don't want to compromise safety.

They are in FP Safe-Embrace Convertible car seats from '97
http://service.mattel.com/us/product...1998%2D08%2D04 (yes, I know about the safety recall & routinely check them out).
Both kids still have a while before they outgrow the seats.

Anyway, thought I'd see if y'all have ideas or recommendations...I need to figure out something before our long vacation road trip in late July.

TIA

	Convertible Car Seats Convertible seats are for infants and toddlers. The seat can be used as a rear-facing seats for younger children, and switched to a forward-facing seat on the child's first birthday if the child weighs at least 20 pounds. However, experts recommend keeping the child in a rear-facing position until he or she outgrows the weight or height allowed by the safety seat.

	Forum Speak DD: Dear Daughter DS: Dear Son DH: Dear Husband DW: Dear Wife SO: Significant Other BF: Boyfriend GF: Girlfriend

[cookie123]

Hi! I'm not sure if you're aware that most carseats expire after 6 years. Actually, I think the seats you have may have a longer life. I think you said your seats are from 1997. 10 years may be pushing it a bit. Check out this:

http://www.childrestraintsafety.com/...xpiration.html

If you're interested in new seats, post back with your kids weights and torso heights (sit on floor against the wall and measure to top of shoulder)
It's possible your 2 year old could still rear face if not still. Maybe that would be more comfortable. As long as he/she is below the rear facing weight limit and has one inch or more of head above the shell.

	Rear Facing Car Seats A rear-facing seat is one in which the infant faces the back of the car. Always install a rear-facing seat in the back seat of your car. This is the safest position for an infant. NEVER place a rear-facing seat in the front seat of a vehicle with passenger airbags.

[cookie123]

Actually, here's a couple more links regarding expired seats, including the one I already posted.

http://home.comcast.net/~dcbsr/test/..._old_seat.mpeg
That's the crash test footage of a 10 year old Britax seat...harnessed ripped right through the back, ejecting the dummy.

http://www.childrestraintsafety.com/...xpiration.html

http://www.epinions.com/content_4753956996

http://babyproducts.about.com/b/a/257283.htm

	Britax - Click for more info Britax International has been producing reliable child safety products for over 30 years. Not only does Britax have decades of experience creating car seats and other children's safety equipment, Britax has a long standing reputation as an industry leader and innovator. Britax International is headquartered in the United Kingdom, but Britax car seats are designed and manufactured at facilities in Germany, Austria, and the United States. In the summer of 2002, Britax strengthened their commitment to creating the safest car seats with the opening of a brand new, state-of-the-art crash testing facility in North Carolina. Britax car seats have a reputation around the world for being some of the safest, most reliable, and best designed child safety seats ever made.

[Papooses]

Please call the toll free customer service number on the carseat to see if your carseat is expired -- if the stickers have worn off then you should not be using the seat anyway.... There have been some nice safety improvements to carseats in the last 10 years, too. The old Fisher Price seats were excellent for the time, but current carseats are going to provide more optimal safety for your children & you may not even have to spend much $

• What are the ages, weights & heights for each child?
• What is your vehicle year, make, model?
• What is your budget?

Keeping kids rear-facing until the maximum limits of the convertible seat is ideal for safety as well as comfort Most back aches are a result of dangling legs: this also happens to adults when we sit without foot support For those kids who no longer fit the rear-facing limits, an empty styrofoam box or rolled up old comfortor can help.

	Rear Facing Car Seats A rear-facing seat is one in which the infant faces the back of the car. Always install a rear-facing seat in the back seat of your car. This is the safest position for an infant. NEVER place a rear-facing seat in the front seat of a vehicle with passenger airbags.

	Convertible Car Seats Convertible seats are for infants and toddlers. The seat can be used as a rear-facing seats for younger children, and switched to a forward-facing seat on the child's first birthday if the child weighs at least 20 pounds. However, experts recommend keeping the child in a rear-facing position until he or she outgrows the weight or height allowed by the safety seat.

[l8dbugsmom]

Wow! You guys are a great help...not to mention all the info I found after posting my original question. Looks like my seats expired 2 years ago! Bottom line: I'm going shopping!

Maybe you can help...here are my details:

DD 4 yrs old, 36 lbs., 39.5" tall, 14" torso
DS 2 yrs old, 30 lbs., 34" tall, 12" torso

I drive a 2002 Buick Regal (latch equipped).

Budget: Under $100/each.

TIA

	Forum Speak DD: Dear Daughter DS: Dear Son DH: Dear Husband DW: Dear Wife SO: Significant Other BF: Boyfriend GF: Girlfriend

	LATCH LATCH stands for Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren. It is a system mandated by the Federal government in an effort to standardize and simplify the installation of child restraints without using the vehicle's seat belt system. New vehicles and child safety seats manufactured on and after September 1, 2002 will be equipped with the LATCH system. Cars, minivans, and light trucks will be required to have anchor points between the vehicle's seat cushion and the seat back in at least two rear seating positions, and a top tether anchor (with the exception of convertibles). Child safety seats will have a lower set of attachments that fasten to the vehicle anchors. Most forward-facing child safety seats will also have a top strap (tether) that attaches to the top anchor in the vehicle.

[cookie123]

If you can stretch your budget a bit, you can get the Fisher Price Safe Voyage Deluxe for about $130 online. Usually you can find free shipping. This is a great seat. It is made by Britax for Fisher Price and is comparable to the Britax Marathon, but has less features. The good part is it has the same harness heights - highest are 17 inches (most kids outgrow their seats by height before weight, which is why it's important)and a weight limit of 50 or 55 lbs.- can't remember which! It is a convertible seat so can be used rear facing until 33 lbs. This seat should last your kids until booster age - usually 5 to 6 years, and at least 40 lbs.
You can try the Marathon at BRUS before ordering it, to make sure it fits,
although generally it's easy to install and get a good fit.

There are some options that are a little cheaper, and some that are more. By now, I've forgotten your DC statistics!

I could suggest the Apex, which is a forward facing only seat, for your 4 year old. It harnesses to 65 lbs. It is about $100 - 120, can be found at BRus or online. It's pretty large if your child is petite or you have issues with room. Again try before buying! I think the Apex has 17 inch top slots, too.

Other Forward facing seats that go only to 40 lbs harnessed are the Bolero or Generations, which both are combination seats. This means they go to belt positioning boosters after 40 lbs. They have 17 inch top slots, too, so if you feel you won't hit 40 lbs before 4 as a bare minimum, 5 to 6 preferred, you could go with that. The Bolero is the cheaper of the two. It's less padded. Usually it's available at K Mart for approx $70 - it goes on sale. The Generations I think is at Target and BRUS, and is closer to $100.

I have to get going. My DH is waiting for me!! If you have other questions post back!

	Forward Facing Car Seats A forward-facing car seat is one in which the child sits facing the front of the car. The seat should be installed in the back seat of your vehicle. Most forward-facing only seats are for children above 20 pounds.

	Britax - Click for more info Britax International has been producing reliable child safety products for over 30 years. Not only does Britax have decades of experience creating car seats and other children's safety equipment, Britax has a long standing reputation as an industry leader and innovator. Britax International is headquartered in the United Kingdom, but Britax car seats are designed and manufactured at facilities in Germany, Austria, and the United States. In the summer of 2002, Britax strengthened their commitment to creating the safest car seats with the opening of a brand new, state-of-the-art crash testing facility in North Carolina. Britax car seats have a reputation around the world for being some of the safest, most reliable, and best designed child safety seats ever made.

	Rear Facing Car Seats A rear-facing seat is one in which the infant faces the back of the car. Always install a rear-facing seat in the back seat of your car. This is the safest position for an infant. NEVER place a rear-facing seat in the front seat of a vehicle with passenger airbags.

	Convertible Car Seats Convertible seats are for infants and toddlers. The seat can be used as a rear-facing seats for younger children, and switched to a forward-facing seat on the child's first birthday if the child weighs at least 20 pounds. However, experts recommend keeping the child in a rear-facing position until he or she outgrows the weight or height allowed by the safety seat.

	Booster Seat A booster seat raises your child up so that the car's lap and shoulder belts fit correctly. The lap belt should fall across the upper thighs. The shoulder belt should go across the middle of the shoulder and chest. A booster seat is used for older children up to about 80 pounds. Some states have passed laws requiring booster seats for children up to age 8 or 80 pounds. Check your state's law.

	Britax Marathon - Click for more info Increasing the time a child can safely stay in their convertible car seat is a big issue and Britax engineers have come through in a big way with the introduction of the Britax Marathon with LATCH. A LATCH Compatible Convertible Child Seat, the Britax Marathon can be used rear facing 5 to 33 pounds and forward facing from 20 to 65 pounds. Compare the numbers and you will see it is hard to find a seat with these weight limits that is safe and functional.

	Forum Speak DD: Dear Daughter DS: Dear Son DH: Dear Husband DW: Dear Wife SO: Significant Other BF: Boyfriend GF: Girlfriend

[l8dbugsmom]

I think I want to go with combination seats just to save having to purchase separate boosters in a year or so. Thought I would test out the Evenflo Generations, Graco Platinum CarGo and Cosco Hi-Back Booster.

Took the kids to Target today and neither of them liked sitting in the Graco Platinum and both liked the Cosco...I was surprised since it's so plain and simple, but my 4yo could do the straps her self and thought it was comfy. However, when I tried to install it in my car the LATCH straps would not tighten enough and the top tether anchor wouldn't either! The anchor strap was really a pain w/loops and unlacing etc...so back it goes.

They didn't have the Evenflo so I will go shopping at BRU this week to see what else we like.

Thanks for your continued advice!

	Booster Seat A booster seat raises your child up so that the car's lap and shoulder belts fit correctly. The lap belt should fall across the upper thighs. The shoulder belt should go across the middle of the shoulder and chest. A booster seat is used for older children up to about 80 pounds. Some states have passed laws requiring booster seats for children up to age 8 or 80 pounds. Check your state's law.

	Graco - Click for more info Graco is one of the world's best known and most trusted juvenile products companies. They started the entire juvenile products industry with an invention called the Graco Swyngomatic. Since then they have invented products that have changed the way that parents travel with their children such as the travel system, which has made it so parents can lock an infant car seat into a stroller easily, without waking their sleeping baby. Their Graco SnugRide Infant Car Seat is pretty much synonymous with the term “infant car seat” because of its safety and design features coupled with its affordability. Today Graco continues designing and developing top-quality products that inspire parents and keeps children safe. Check out the new Infant Safe Seat Step 1 and Toddler Safe Seat Step 2 for proof of Graco’s continued commitment to child safety.

	LATCH LATCH stands for Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren. It is a system mandated by the Federal government in an effort to standardize and simplify the installation of child restraints without using the vehicle's seat belt system. New vehicles and child safety seats manufactured on and after September 1, 2002 will be equipped with the LATCH system. Cars, minivans, and light trucks will be required to have anchor points between the vehicle's seat cushion and the seat back in at least two rear seating positions, and a top tether anchor (with the exception of convertibles). Child safety seats will have a lower set of attachments that fasten to the vehicle anchors. Most forward-facing child safety seats will also have a top strap (tether) that attaches to the top anchor in the vehicle.

	Top-Tether A top tether (or top strap) is the supplemental attachment now standard on almost every new carseat in the USA. Top tethers can be used with either the seat belt or with the lower anchors (as part of the LATCH system). In other countries, their use may be required by law. A top-tether is simply a strap that connects the top of the carseat to an anchor mounted in the vehicle at a location behind the carseat, usually the parcel shelf or a point on the floor of the cargo area. It is designed to prevent the forward movement of the top of a forward-facing carseat in a frontal crash. This reduces the head excursion of the child, and can reduce the chances of injury. Almost all current carseats can only meet the tougher new federal safety standards when the tether is used, even though they must still meet the minimum safety standards without a tether.

	Graco CarGo booster seat - Click for more info The Graco CarGo is a dependable and easy to use booster seat. When your child is on the lower end of the height/weight limits for the seat, the 5-point harness is used to keep them safely in place. It features a convenient one-pull snugging mechanism in the front of the seat - making it easy to tighten the straps down after your child has been buckled in. When your child is around 35-40" tall, the CarGo's harness can be removed, so that the seat can be used as a belt-positioning booster, using the vehicle's lap and shoulder belt. In this mode, the Graco CarGo will work for kids up to 54" or 100 lbs. Both the Platinum and the Ultra CarGo feature an Energy Absorbing Foam (EPS) liner, a removable, washable seat pad, and a cup holder. The Platinum CarGo is a softer and more comfortable seat than the Ultra CarGo (although still not as comfy as the well-padded Britax booster seats).

[cookie123]

The Cosco booster has the lowest top slots of the three, so I wouldn't recommend it. The harness will be outgrown pretty quickly by your 4 year old, and alot of 4 year olds aren't mature to sit right in a booster.

The Cargo, although it seems nice - it IS nice, actually - doesn't make a good booster because of the closed belt guides. If the child leans forward, it tends to keep the seat belt loose when the child leans back, leaving the child with no upper body protection.

One of these seats you mentioned probably aren't the best for your 4 year old because they all only harness to 40 lbs. I would suggest the Apex 65 for her/him? which is probably the least expensive option out there. You MUST have support behind the headrest to use this seat - probably an adjustable headrest.

There are a few other options:
The Sunshine Kids Radian 65 - harnesses to 65 lbs - not a booster after. Has 18 inch top harness slots. Your 4 year old could use this seat until your 2 year old outgrows a 40 lbs seat, then pass it down, and get the 4 year old a dedicated high back booster.

Actually, (Light bulb comes on!) the 2 year old is about too big to rear face, so get her/him the Generations or Bolero, then when outgrown, give it to the 4 year old to use as a booster, and give the Sunshine Kids Radian or Apex 65 - which ever you had decided on for the 4 year old, to the 2 year old.

There are a few other options for harnessing above 40 lbs. They are quite a bit more expensive. Let me know if you're interested.

Another factor might be how much your 2 year old sleeps in the car. A FF only seat may be too upright for that if it's more than occasionally. That said, the Generations does have a recline bar that could help a little with that, where as the Bolero doesn't.

Okay, sorry about running off before. And sorry this somehow got so long! Have a great day and happy carseat shopping! Peg

	Forward Facing Car Seats A forward-facing car seat is one in which the child sits facing the front of the car. The seat should be installed in the back seat of your vehicle. Most forward-facing only seats are for children above 20 pounds.

	Booster Seat A booster seat raises your child up so that the car's lap and shoulder belts fit correctly. The lap belt should fall across the upper thighs. The shoulder belt should go across the middle of the shoulder and chest. A booster seat is used for older children up to about 80 pounds. Some states have passed laws requiring booster seats for children up to age 8 or 80 pounds. Check your state's law.

	Sunshine Kids - Click for more info Makers of a number of accessories geared towards making parents lives easier, Sunshine Kids has recently embarked in a new direction. In 2005 they unveiled their first car seat, the Radian. Their years of experience working in children's products focusued on child comfort and parent convenience shine through in this unique convertible car seat. The Radian is packed with safety features and is the first ever folding convertible car seat appealing to parents who car pool or travel often.

	Sunshine Kids Radian 80 or 65 - Click for more info If "the Sunshine Kid's Radian 80 convertible car seat is (probably) the only car seat you will ever need," the "probably" part of this statement comes into play when you directly compare the Radian 80 with the Britax Regent. While the Radian 80 has a very high weight capacity, the seat width is only 10" vs. the Regent's 14" seat. The Britax Regent may be a bit wider, but it is very bulky, is only forward facing, and does not fold like the Radian 80. Because the Radian 80 is so narrow, you can potentially put three of them side by side in the back seat. Three Regents side by side? Impossible.

	Peg Perego - Click for more info Founded by Italian designer Guiseppe Pérego all the way back in 1949, Peg Pérego quickly branched out from traditional prams to strollers, high chairs, car seats, toys and accessories. Internationally renowned for innovative products and a supreme sense of style, Peg Pérego creates some of the most enjoyable and eye-catching transportation and safety options for children all over the world. With factories and offices in Italy, Germany, Canada, and the U.S., Peg Pérego is a truly international entity, blending technology and history to create lines that are reputable and safe. Peg Pérego professes a "dedication to original and innovative products designed for discriminating consumers who demand fashion, individuality, quality and safety in the products they purchase for their babies and young."