Yet another three car seat ?

[mom2sol]

Hi, my husband and I recently decided we are going to try for kid #3. One thing that has been on our mind is car seats and car space.
We have a 97 Subaru Wagon, which I enjoy. I don't like being high up like in SUV or Minivan, sitting in the back of a minivan makes both my husband and myself car sick...
Gas efficiency is very important to us also. We are thinking that we will need a new car in the next few years before the Suby gets too old and starts giving us problems.
O.kay, so now for car seat configurations.... We have a 4 year old, very large for his age in a backless booster, 21 month old is small for her age and is in a Britax Marathon (which I originally bought for said huge 4 year old when he was a huge 2 year old and outgrew his original convertible). So I'm thinking my daughter will still be in Britax when baby #3 comes, as I expect her to stay small for her age. We are thinking she should be a little over three years and big boy will still be in backless booster. Suby doesn't have middle shoulder belt option only lap belt. I can pretty comfortably fit daughter in middle with two backless boosters on either side but my daughter won't be ready for that.
Narrower seat is an interesting option....
Does any one have experience with the Passat? Curious about the diesel. We also have a friend who recently bought a Mazda 5, we like that but we would have to always have someone in the far back, which leaves little room for groceries, etc... but does give one extra seat option for hauling a friend's kid.
I'm rambling, I know!
Here are my questions:
First would the Suby work at all for our futuristic third kid car seat situation?
What car would people recommend for amply fitting three (two convertible and one backless booster, preferably)? Has to be fuel efficient! And I would prefer a wagon or something like the Mazda 5.:
Thank you!!!!

	Britax - Click for more info Britax International has been producing reliable child safety products for over 30 years. Not only does Britax have decades of experience creating car seats and other children's safety equipment, Britax has a long standing reputation as an industry leader and innovator. Britax International is headquartered in the United Kingdom, but Britax car seats are designed and manufactured at facilities in Germany, Austria, and the United States. In the summer of 2002, Britax strengthened their commitment to creating the safest car seats with the opening of a brand new, state-of-the-art crash testing facility in North Carolina. Britax car seats have a reputation around the world for being some of the safest, most reliable, and best designed child safety seats ever made.

	Convertible Car Seats Convertible seats are for infants and toddlers. The seat can be used as a rear-facing seats for younger children, and switched to a forward-facing seat on the child's first birthday if the child weighs at least 20 pounds. However, experts recommend keeping the child in a rear-facing position until he or she outgrows the weight or height allowed by the safety seat.

	Booster Seat A booster seat raises your child up so that the car's lap and shoulder belts fit correctly. The lap belt should fall across the upper thighs. The shoulder belt should go across the middle of the shoulder and chest. A booster seat is used for older children up to about 80 pounds. Some states have passed laws requiring booster seats for children up to age 8 or 80 pounds. Check your state's law.

	Britax Marathon - Click for more info Increasing the time a child can safely stay in their convertible car seat is a big issue and Britax engineers have come through in a big way with the introduction of the Britax Marathon with LATCH. A LATCH Compatible Convertible Child Seat, the Britax Marathon can be used rear facing 5 to 33 pounds and forward facing from 20 to 65 pounds. Compare the numbers and you will see it is hard to find a seat with these weight limits that is safe and functional.

[Papooses]

IME, it is difficult to get 3 seats across in a Subaru, but not impossible -- 4 years is the bare minimum to "graduate" into a booster (each graduation is a decrease in safety) & it's often easier to buckle harness seats in 3 across situations ... once they've been installed: each must be independently secure with less than 1 in. movement at the belt path.

Can you please list each child's actual age, weight, height?
It's hard to help with just a description of "huge"
Also, what is the actual vehicle year, make, model?

I have not personally installed any seats in a Passat, but I heard good things when we were considering that vehicle I'll ask around some more, but have you also seen the Mazda 5? I think that's it Sized like a small station wagon, 3 rows of seats, 2 seats in each row.

At the very least, IMO, your 4 year old should have a highback booster as research shows they are safer in side impacts, especially those that have deep head wings filled with EPS/EPP foam (Britax Parkway tends to fit kids of all sizes pretty well, adjusts very high, is reasonably priced & the lack of armrests make it easier to use in 3 across situations).

I think I remember it being possible to have Marathon between Snugride or Radian & Parkway in a Subaru.

	Britax - Click for more info Britax International has been producing reliable child safety products for over 30 years. Not only does Britax have decades of experience creating car seats and other children's safety equipment, Britax has a long standing reputation as an industry leader and innovator. Britax International is headquartered in the United Kingdom, but Britax car seats are designed and manufactured at facilities in Germany, Austria, and the United States. In the summer of 2002, Britax strengthened their commitment to creating the safest car seats with the opening of a brand new, state-of-the-art crash testing facility in North Carolina. Britax car seats have a reputation around the world for being some of the safest, most reliable, and best designed child safety seats ever made.

	Booster Seat A booster seat raises your child up so that the car's lap and shoulder belts fit correctly. The lap belt should fall across the upper thighs. The shoulder belt should go across the middle of the shoulder and chest. A booster seat is used for older children up to about 80 pounds. Some states have passed laws requiring booster seats for children up to age 8 or 80 pounds. Check your state's law.

	Britax Marathon - Click for more info Increasing the time a child can safely stay in their convertible car seat is a big issue and Britax engineers have come through in a big way with the introduction of the Britax Marathon with LATCH. A LATCH Compatible Convertible Child Seat, the Britax Marathon can be used rear facing 5 to 33 pounds and forward facing from 20 to 65 pounds. Compare the numbers and you will see it is hard to find a seat with these weight limits that is safe and functional.

	Britax Parkway - Click for more info The new Parkway Booster from Britax builds on their company's reputation as the maker of some of the safest seats on the market today. It's one of the only boosters to offer True Side Impact Protection - the EPS foam-padded headrest and side "wings" aren't just great for naps, they're engineered to provide vital protection to your child in the event of a side-impact crash. (Side-impact crashes are the leading cause of death for children ages 6-14, making this an issue of major importance for booster seats.)

	Graco SnugRide - Click for more info The Graco SnugRide with EPS infant car seat is a highly popular and top-rated infant car seat that provides first-rate transportation safety for your baby, plus convenient mobility options for you. Even with its relatively low price, the Graco SnugRide with EPS receives unmatched praise for its safety by leading consumer magazines and websites.

	Sunshine Kids Radian 80 or 65 - Click for more info If "the Sunshine Kid's Radian 80 convertible car seat is (probably) the only car seat you will ever need," the "probably" part of this statement comes into play when you directly compare the Radian 80 with the Britax Regent. While the Radian 80 has a very high weight capacity, the seat width is only 10" vs. the Regent's 14" seat. The Britax Regent may be a bit wider, but it is very bulky, is only forward facing, and does not fold like the Radian 80. Because the Radian 80 is so narrow, you can potentially put three of them side by side in the back seat. Three Regents side by side? Impossible.

[mom2sol]

My daughter is currently 21 months old, 22 pounds and 32 1/2 inches tall.
My son is 4 (March is his birthday) and he is 45 1/2 pounds and about 44 1/2 inches tall. His torso is long and his head was over the back of the Evenflo convertible seat we had when he was 2! So we then moved him to a Britax Marathon. When we decided to switch him to a booster and were researching we saw that the reason for getting a back as opposed to a backless was whether or not your car had back seat head rest and ours did, so we decided to go with the simpler backless booster seat.
We are going to shoot for 3 to 3 1/2 years spacing between the youngest.
Our current car is a Subaru Wagon, Legacy I think... and it's a '97 or '96, no middle seat shoulder belt.
We still have the Evenflo seat and used it when my daughter was a baby but it's pretty wide, so I'm thinking we need something else for the baby.
Friends of ours have a Mazda 5 and I like the idea. Side by side it's the same length as the Subaru, just a little higher but not as high as a minivan or SUV. the gas mileage is a little better than the Subaru, no 4-wheel drive. The middle seats are two bucket seat and there are two more bonus seats in the far back, the problem with always needing them is they are in the area that would be the wagon part of the Subaru, where I haul stuff... so there wouldn't be much room for hauling around anything but I suppose I could get a roof box.
My husband is determined that we can get all three kids in the back of the Subaru but he doesn't have any experience. I tried once when I had the Evenflo and Britax to get a friend's kid's seat in there and it wasn't happening, and that was a highback booster.
I should try to find someone with a Passat and check out the back seat, I looked for stats briefly but couldn't find them.
Thanks for your help.
Kassi

	Britax - Click for more info Britax International has been producing reliable child safety products for over 30 years. Not only does Britax have decades of experience creating car seats and other children's safety equipment, Britax has a long standing reputation as an industry leader and innovator. Britax International is headquartered in the United Kingdom, but Britax car seats are designed and manufactured at facilities in Germany, Austria, and the United States. In the summer of 2002, Britax strengthened their commitment to creating the safest car seats with the opening of a brand new, state-of-the-art crash testing facility in North Carolina. Britax car seats have a reputation around the world for being some of the safest, most reliable, and best designed child safety seats ever made.

	Convertible Car Seats Convertible seats are for infants and toddlers. The seat can be used as a rear-facing seats for younger children, and switched to a forward-facing seat on the child's first birthday if the child weighs at least 20 pounds. However, experts recommend keeping the child in a rear-facing position until he or she outgrows the weight or height allowed by the safety seat.

	Booster Seat A booster seat raises your child up so that the car's lap and shoulder belts fit correctly. The lap belt should fall across the upper thighs. The shoulder belt should go across the middle of the shoulder and chest. A booster seat is used for older children up to about 80 pounds. Some states have passed laws requiring booster seats for children up to age 8 or 80 pounds. Check your state's law.

	Britax Marathon - Click for more info Increasing the time a child can safely stay in their convertible car seat is a big issue and Britax engineers have come through in a big way with the introduction of the Britax Marathon with LATCH. A LATCH Compatible Convertible Child Seat, the Britax Marathon can be used rear facing 5 to 33 pounds and forward facing from 20 to 65 pounds. Compare the numbers and you will see it is hard to find a seat with these weight limits that is safe and functional.

[Papooses]

Originally Posted by mom2sol

My daughter is currently 21 months old, 22 pounds and 32 1/2 inches tall.

She's still rear-facing, right? My website explains in detail why extended RF is soooooo important!

My son is 4 (March is his birthday) and he is 45 1/2 pounds and about 44 1/2 inches tall. His torso is long and his head was over the back of the Evenflo convertible seat we had when he was 2! So we then moved him to a Britax Marathon. When we decided to switch him to a booster and were researching we saw that the reason for getting a back as opposed to a backless was whether or not your car had back seat head rest and ours did, so we decided to go with the simpler backless booster seat.

Backless boosters are *acceptable* if there's a vehicle headrest, but they leave the skull much more vulnerable -- when the vehicle does not have center seat shoulder belt + headrest and/or side curtain airbags then a highback booster is that much more important: brain injuries being the leading cause of death from side impact (highback boosters are at least about 70% safer than backless in side impacts). My website also shows comparisons on this issue.

Evenflo convertibles have the shortest shell/frame. My daughter also outgrew them by 2 years old. She was as tall as your son at only 3 years old, but weighed less. Can you please measure your son's torso length? Sit him flat on the floor back flush with a wall or door & measure from floor to top of shoulder

Subaru Wagon, Legacy I think... and it's a '97 or '96, no middle seat shoulder belt.

When you pull the shoulder belt all the way out very slowly does it make a clicking sound when it retracts? If so, then you have Switchable Locking Retractors, which can help keep your 4 year old properly positioned in a booster, but I still think the Radian might be a safer + easier option (if it installs in your vehicle correctly).

Safest practice states that the least protected child sits in the most protected location. The center is the farthest from impact. RF harness seats are safer than FF harness seats, but both are dramatically safer than boosters (especially backless boosters, but boosters themselves are a vital step: they just shouldn't be rushed into).

If I were you, I'd contact Safety in Motion - E-Z-ON Products, Inc. of Florida to discuss using the Kid-Y harness in the center with a Britax Parkway so that you could have the Marathon outboard (ideally RF until kiddo reaches the *maximum* limits). Biggest kid can climb in around the infant seat base. I would hope that the Graco SafeSeat Step1 would fit so that your daughter could stay RF longer before needing to put baby into the Marathon & turn your daughter FF to make it convenient for your son to get to the center.

We still have the Evenflo seat and used it when my daughter was a baby but it's pretty wide, so I'm thinking we need something else for the baby.

Beware that seats expire within 6 years from Date of Manufacture -- sometimes stores sell older stock so it might already be expired? Hopefully not JIC, but.... It is rather wide & I do not believe it will work in a 3 across situation in the Legacy (it didn't when my daughter was born: 4 & 7 year old siblings).

Friends of ours have a Mazda 5 and I like the idea. Side by side it's the same length as the Subaru, just a little higher but not as high as a minivan or SUV. the gas mileage is a little better than the Subaru, no 4-wheel drive. The middle seats are two bucket seat and there are two more bonus seats in the far back, the problem with always needing them is they are in the area that would be the wagon part of the Subaru, where I haul stuff... so there wouldn't be much room for hauling around anything but I suppose I could get a roof box.

What kind of stuff do you haul? Loose items become dangerous projectiles, so I recommend minimizing what's in the cargo area & look into a dealer installed barrier. Pressure mounted barriers can themselves become projectiles in a crash, perhaps shattering.

My husband is determined that we can get all three kids in the back of the Subaru but he doesn't have any experience. I tried once when I had the Evenflo and Britax to get a friend's kid's seat in there and it wasn't happening, and that was a highback booster.
I should try to find someone with a Passat and check out the back seat, I looked for stats briefly but couldn't find them.
Thanks for your help.
Kassi

All boosters with armrests are going to be especially difficult & specifically with the Evenflo convertible -- the Marathon sides usually rest on top of armrests well, but then you'll get bloody knucles digging for the buckle The Parkway is nice because it doens't have armrests, but the Radian would be even easier to buckle since it's all done up front without any digging + harnesses are safer in every crash type.... It is definitely possible to fit 3 kids across the Legacy, but it's not going to be easy. I'm hoping some other techs & advocates can chime in on the Passat!

	Forward Facing Car Seats A forward-facing car seat is one in which the child sits facing the front of the car. The seat should be installed in the back seat of your vehicle. Most forward-facing only seats are for children above 20 pounds.

	Britax - Click for more info Britax International has been producing reliable child safety products for over 30 years. Not only does Britax have decades of experience creating car seats and other children's safety equipment, Britax has a long standing reputation as an industry leader and innovator. Britax International is headquartered in the United Kingdom, but Britax car seats are designed and manufactured at facilities in Germany, Austria, and the United States. In the summer of 2002, Britax strengthened their commitment to creating the safest car seats with the opening of a brand new, state-of-the-art crash testing facility in North Carolina. Britax car seats have a reputation around the world for being some of the safest, most reliable, and best designed child safety seats ever made.

	Rear Facing Car Seats A rear-facing seat is one in which the infant faces the back of the car. Always install a rear-facing seat in the back seat of your car. This is the safest position for an infant. NEVER place a rear-facing seat in the front seat of a vehicle with passenger airbags.

	Convertible Car Seats Convertible seats are for infants and toddlers. The seat can be used as a rear-facing seats for younger children, and switched to a forward-facing seat on the child's first birthday if the child weighs at least 20 pounds. However, experts recommend keeping the child in a rear-facing position until he or she outgrows the weight or height allowed by the safety seat.

	Infant Car Seats Infant-only rear-facing seats are for babies up to about 22 to 30 pounds, depending on the specific car seat. You will need a new seat when your child gets bigger. Infant-only seats have handles that allow you to move the seat from the car to the house or other locations. Some have a base that you can leave installed in the car, so you can just click the car seat into place each time you use it.

	Booster Seat A booster seat raises your child up so that the car's lap and shoulder belts fit correctly. The lap belt should fall across the upper thighs. The shoulder belt should go across the middle of the shoulder and chest. A booster seat is used for older children up to about 80 pounds. Some states have passed laws requiring booster seats for children up to age 8 or 80 pounds. Check your state's law.

	Britax Marathon - Click for more info Increasing the time a child can safely stay in their convertible car seat is a big issue and Britax engineers have come through in a big way with the introduction of the Britax Marathon with LATCH. A LATCH Compatible Convertible Child Seat, the Britax Marathon can be used rear facing 5 to 33 pounds and forward facing from 20 to 65 pounds. Compare the numbers and you will see it is hard to find a seat with these weight limits that is safe and functional.

	Britax Parkway - Click for more info The new Parkway Booster from Britax builds on their company's reputation as the maker of some of the safest seats on the market today. It's one of the only boosters to offer True Side Impact Protection - the EPS foam-padded headrest and side "wings" aren't just great for naps, they're engineered to provide vital protection to your child in the event of a side-impact crash. (Side-impact crashes are the leading cause of death for children ages 6-14, making this an issue of major importance for booster seats.)

	Graco - Click for more info Graco is one of the world's best known and most trusted juvenile products companies. They started the entire juvenile products industry with an invention called the Graco Swyngomatic. Since then they have invented products that have changed the way that parents travel with their children such as the travel system, which has made it so parents can lock an infant car seat into a stroller easily, without waking their sleeping baby. Their Graco SnugRide Infant Car Seat is pretty much synonymous with the term “infant car seat” because of its safety and design features coupled with its affordability. Today Graco continues designing and developing top-quality products that inspire parents and keeps children safe. Check out the new Infant Safe Seat Step 1 and Toddler Safe Seat Step 2 for proof of Graco’s continued commitment to child safety.

	Graco Safe Seat Step 1 - Click for more info The Graco Safe Seat (Step 1)—if you couldn't gather from the name— is intended to be the first of a three-seat process. The Step 1 is for infants in a rear-facing position; the Step 2 is for bigger, older kids in the forward-position; the Step 3 is a belt-positioning booster seat without the safety harness of the previous two.

	Sunshine Kids Radian 80 or 65 - Click for more info If "the Sunshine Kid's Radian 80 convertible car seat is (probably) the only car seat you will ever need," the "probably" part of this statement comes into play when you directly compare the Radian 80 with the Britax Regent. While the Radian 80 has a very high weight capacity, the seat width is only 10" vs. the Regent's 14" seat. The Britax Regent may be a bit wider, but it is very bulky, is only forward facing, and does not fold like the Radian 80. Because the Radian 80 is so narrow, you can potentially put three of them side by side in the back seat. Three Regents side by side? Impossible.

	Graco CarGo booster seat - Click for more info The Graco CarGo is a dependable and easy to use booster seat. When your child is on the lower end of the height/weight limits for the seat, the 5-point harness is used to keep them safely in place. It features a convenient one-pull snugging mechanism in the front of the seat - making it easy to tighten the straps down after your child has been buckled in. When your child is around 35-40" tall, the CarGo's harness can be removed, so that the seat can be used as a belt-positioning booster, using the vehicle's lap and shoulder belt. In this mode, the Graco CarGo will work for kids up to 54" or 100 lbs. Both the Platinum and the Ultra CarGo feature an Energy Absorbing Foam (EPS) liner, a removable, washable seat pad, and a cup holder. The Platinum CarGo is a softer and more comfortable seat than the Ultra CarGo (although still not as comfy as the well-padded Britax booster seats).